Is It Ethical For The USA To Be Involved In Israeli Conflicts?

 

On 13 July 2025, Charlie Kirk, founder and CEO of Turning Point, moderated the debate between Dave Smith and Josh Hammer, both of them Jewish, during the final event of the 2025 Student Action Summit. 

The subject up for debate was that of 'Israeli conflicts,' and whether it is ethical for the US to be involved in them. 

DAVE: “American foreign policy for my entire life has been insane, criminally insane. We’ve launched war after war, we’ve talked about peace through strength all the time, but all we’ve gotten is permanent militarism and forever wars against countries that pose no threat to us. 

And a huge part of the reason why we've embarked on this is because the Neoconservatives hijacked our foreign policy and they were in power after 9/11. And the Neoconservatives, as everybody who's followed it knows, were joined at the hip with the Likud party. That's just a fact. They all admitted it in their own words.

And you can go back and you can read the 'Clean Break' memo. You can read the companion piece, coping with crumbling states. This was written by David Wormser and Richard Perl, and they laid out their plan. Now their plan was that, in to help Israel, the 'Clean Break' is a break from the peace process, a break from Oslo, which was designed to give the Palestinians their own state. 

And these Neoconservative geniuses decided that, instead of the Israelis making peace with the Palestinians, they could just have the US overthrow all of the surrounding governments that were giving Israel a hard time. And this is where four-star General, Wesley Clark, says that he saw the plans, right after 9/11, to overthrow seven countries in the next 5 years. And what was the last country on that list? It was Iran. Okay, this is a big part of what the whole conflict is about. 

Now the Neoconservatives, 'Neoonservative' has kind of become like a pejorative for 'war hawks' these days. And don't get me wrong, I support that. Keep calling them Neocons. But the actual Neoconservatives, the self-identified Neoconservatives, aren't really in power anymore, but Benjamin Netanyahu is still in power in Israel and the Likud party is still pushing for this...

They actually did focus group testing back in the '90s before the first Gulf War in Iraq. And you know, Americans weren't really moved by, 'we have to reinstall the king of Kuwait,' but they were moved by the nuclear threat. Now, if you go read 'Coping with Crumbling States' or the 'Clean Break' memo in the '90s when the Neocons admitted they wanted to overthrow Saddam Hussein, they never said it was 'cos he had nuclear weapons. They said he was a problem for Israel in the region. They only made up that lie after 9/11 'cos they knew that's what would sell you. Maybe not you, you're too young, but sell your moms and dads on going and fighting this war. 

And, by the way, when they talked about wanting to overthrow Iran, it was the same thing. Never had nothing to do with a nuclear threat. That's just the thing they use now as the excuse. 

So yes, there is tremendous influence by Israel in our government. That doesn't mean I'm subscribing to some crazy conspiracy or telling you to hate Jewish people. I'm Jewish. I'm just saying they have influence. They've used it in a very negative way and we should reject this insane foreign policy and embrace the foreign policy that Dr. Ron Paul advocated which is the foreign policy of the founding fathers. 'Stay out of entangling alliances. Stay out of unnecessary wars. Be friends with the world and trade with the world.' That's the key to prosperity." 

JOSH: “Dave always conveniently neglects to inform the audience of this that the actual leader of the Israeli right back in 2002, a man by the name of Ariel Sharon, vehemently opposed the Bush administration going into Iraq. (Really?) So this whole notion that that Israel is talking America into foreign wars is total nonsense. 

Actually in 2011, when the Obama administration toppled Muammar Gaddafi in Libya, it's actually well known that Libya actually sent secret diplomatic envoys to Israel trying to tell them to talk to the United States and France, to talk NATO off of that attack there. So this whole narrative is totally backwards there. (Really?) 

This whole narrative is totally backwards... An overwhelming majority of self-identified MAGA Republicans support close US-Israel relations. According to a CBS news poll, moreover, 94% of self-identified MAGA Republicans supported President Trump's dropping those B2 bombs on Iranian facilities there. This is a wildly wildly popular policy there. What did what did Dave Smith say about this? He re-used his now years-long crusade to call for Donald Trump's impeachment... He's now called for Donald Trump to be impeached multiple times... 

I actually have a little bit of a highlight reel here of Dave Smith's tweets over the years. Dave Smith, March 19th, 2024. 'Donald Trump is responsible for around 500,000 deaths in Yemen. And between the weapons to Ukraine and the Abraham Accords Jerusalem embassy, he is at least partially responsible for the two worst humanitarian crises in the world. He's a war criminal who should spend his life in prison!' He is calling Donald Trump a war criminal who should spend his life in prison. You should be livid at that. I am livid at that as a Trump supporter. 

Dave Smith, June 16, 2025. 'Trump allegedly had full prior knowledge of Israel's attacks and gave it his blessing while pretending to be negotiating with the Iranians as a cover. If this is true, Trump is the most impotent bitch of a leader imaginable.' He's calling our President, the greatest President in my lifetime, an impotent bitch! Are you kidding me? 

June 21st, 2025. 'Donald Trump is now someone who an illegal war of aggression against Iran. The risk of an absolute catastrophe is very high and the benefits are non-existent.' Dave Smith, June 21st. Dead wrong. This notion that World War II would start, not a single American casualty. We should be celebrating that. Donald Trump fulfilled multiple, he fulfilled multiple campaign promises. The escalator speech in 2015 at Trump Tower, he literally said, 'I'm not going to let Iran get a nuclear weapon.' And guess what? He also he said, 'I oppose a Neoconservative foreign policy.' He did both of those things with Iran. He deprived the Iranian regime of nuclear weapons while not losing a single American sailor, soldier, marine... 

And finally... Dave Smith, July 8th, 2025. 'In the last month, Donald Trump has launched a war of aggression on behalf of a foreign government, exploded the debt, announced that he's continuing the Biden policy of arming Ukraine, and covered up a giant child rape operation.' 

So, according to my interlocutor, Donald Trump is not just engaging in wars on behalf of foreign government. He is also covering up the world's giants pedophilic child sex trafficking ring, allegedly, I presume on behalf of foreign government, as well. So I'm disgusted, frankly, that this man is on stage, but I'll end it at that." 

CHARLIE: "Okay. Well, got it. So you can see peace is hard. I'm trying to keep the peace. Now Dave, I want to give you an opportunity about four minutes to respond to that, but also I do want to, now that we had the opening salvos and the tomahawk missiles launched. Let's let's respond as you see fit. And then bring us to the 12-day war. Let's stay focused on that. But defend yourself, right?"

DAVE: "Sure. Well, the thing is, Charlie, as you may have noticed, and some of you may have seen some of my other debates, every single time I come up here to debate issues, and they come up here to debate me and my character. It's all they have every single time, 'cos they can't actually take on any of the arguments. 

And so the most pathetic low-hanging fruit of, 'you guys like Trump, this guy said bad things about Trump.' Listen guys, I'm a I'm a free American. I supported Donald Trump in this last election. Yes, he did just actively cover up a giant child rapist ring. And I'm going to criticize him for that. Okay? And I'm sorry after all these years of us right-wingers saying 'protect the children.' Come on, that's bad for your soul if you don't you speak up about that. It's horrible what he's doing. 

And you know, as far as the actual substance of what Josh said here, which there really wasn't much, but I already pointed this out the last time we debated his topic about how Sharon was against the war in Iraq, is total nonsense. Sharon's envoy initially opposed it when he found out that Bush was going to invade Iraq, not because he didn't want Saddam Hussein to be overthrown, but because he wanted regime change in Iran first. 

And then when the George W. Bush administration assured him that Iran would come next, they got on board with it and they started pumping out all types of propaganda about how Saddam Hussein's nuclear secret sites that didn't exist. 

And Benjamin Netanyahu, the longest serving Prime Minister in Israeli history, that year in 2002, came to Congress and testified under, you know, a congressional testimony that anybody can go watch, and advocated, not that the US let Israel do it, but that the US overthrow Saddam Hussein. I believe his words were, 'I guarantee that peace will spread through the region.' And he also advocated that we overthrow Muammar Gaddafi and the Mullahs in Iran. So that's just, you're just wrong about it. That's not true. 

And yes, have I been critical of Donald Trump when I think he gets things wrong? Yeah. I mean I think that's what we should do. This is America. You criticize the government when they get things wrong... As far as the 12-day war goes, I mean, look, I'll be honest. Donald Trump, it might be the greatest thing he's ever done in his life that, at the end of the 12-day war, after the Iranian response was as weak as it was, and they gave us advanced warning, so there were no American casualties, he started pushing for a ceasefire, and and that was great that he did that. 

But the point is that the war never needed to be launched to begin with. Iran did not have nuclear weapons. Iran, according to all of the according to all of the intelligence, including our director of national intelligence, until a day after Israel bombed them and she changed her mind. Go read the annual threat assessment from earlier this year. Iran had not made the political decision to acquire a nuclear weapon and they were in negotiations with Donald Trump at the time to bring their enrichment down. There was just no need, other than the fact that Benjamin Netanyahu wants that regime overthrown."

CHARLIE: "Josh, feel free to respond." 

JOSH: "Yeah, I'd be curious if Dave Smith also believes in the tooth fairy and pink unicorns. I mean, what lie does Dave Smith not believe, frankly?" 

And much more... 

Basically, Dave, a palpably nice guy, who seems to be on the side of peace, love and common sense, kicks the behind of Josh, a nasty, creepy little chap, who speaks up for Netanyahu and co. and Trump's disgraceful backing of these and their genocidal ambitions. 

You may think differently. 

Charlie set this debate up. And those who own Trump, and the rest of the West's bought-and-paid-for leaders, do not like it when their spokespersons get done over in narrative-shattering debates that, to their way of thinking, should never have taken place. 

And they will make their feeling known to those who facilitate the embarrassment.